Ch. 21 & 22

HW 21-2
HW: 21A 1,5,8; 21B 1; 22A 1,3,4; 22B 4


Final clauses and commands

After si, nisi, num, and ne all the ali's fall away...

quis/quid (normally "who"/"what") means someone/something/anyone/anything (usually aliquis/aliquid) after ne.

Section 211 just says to use quis, quid after ne instead of quisquam, quidquam or ullus, -a, -um which come after nec/necque.

See the comparative chart in 212 for which pronouns and adverbs to use after each

Example:
He ordered us to leave lest we ever be captured. (or "to avoid ever being captured")
Iussit nos discedere ne quando caperemur.

Section 213 introduces negative purpose clauses, also called negative final clauses, or clauses of prevention. We have already mentioned how to form them. They use ne instead of ut and have a subjunctive verb following sequence of tenses. NOTE: English often uses an infinitive ("to avoid being defeated") but Latin must use a negative purpose clause.

E.g.
He left lest he be caught. (or "to avoid being caught"/"so as not to be caught")
Discessit ne caperetur. (imperfect subjunctive after secondary main verb)
He is coming lest anyone be killed. ("to prevent anyone from being killed")
Venit ne quis interficiatur. (present subjunctive after primary main verb)

Section 215 notes that sometimes purpose clauses may be signposted (similar to result clauses) by using a word or phrase that means something like "with this plan/idea/intention..." or "therefore/so".

E.g.
He arranged his soldiers with this intention, that they not be defeated.
Milites instruxit eo consilio ne vincerentur. (imperfect subjunctive after secondary main verb)
I will walk with this purpose, to come to Rome.
Ambulabo ideo (or "hac causa"), ut Romam adveniam. (present subjunctive after primary main verb)

Clauses of Reported Speech

Sections 221-3 remind you that many verbs may take more than one type of indirect discourse (reported speech).

Examples:
He warned you that they were dying.
Indirect Statement} Monuit te mori eos.
He warned you to help them. (or "that you should help them")
Indirect Command} Monuit te ut eos adiuvares.

We asked them to fight bravely.
Indirect command} Rogavimus eos ut fortiter pugnarent.
We will ask whether they fought bravely.
Indirect Question} Rogabimus num fortiter pugnaverint.


If "tell" in English means order, you must use iubeo or veto (tell not to...) or impero + dat. and indirect command.

Examples:
He tells us that life is good.
Indirect Statement} Narrat nobis vitam esse bonam.
She tells us to run. (or "that we should run")
with iubeo} Ea iubet nos currere.
Indirect Command} Ea nobis imperat ut curramus.
We were telling you (pl.) not to go away.
with veto} Vetabamus vos abire.
Indirect Command} Imperabamus vobis ne abiretis.

Section 225 shows two common ways of expressing future indirect statements.

The normal way that you have already learned is with a future infinitive for the verb and accusative for the subject (normal indirect statement), such as:

He hopes that he will see you there.
Sperat se(subject) te ibi visurum esse (future active infinitive).

It is harder to do future passive indirect statements. One way is to use the infinitive fore or futurum esse with an ut clause (noun clause of result) as its subject. The ut clause will be construed like a result clause with a subjunctive verb. This way is often used to express indirect statements in the future passive, since Latin has no normal future passive infinitive.

Direct statement/quotation "You all will be killed."

Options in indirect discourse:
Noveram vos interfectum iri. (interfectum is accusative supine & iri
is present passive infinitive of eo)

Noveram posse vos facile interfici. Literally: I knew that you all
could easily be killed. (not quite the same sense but close)

Noveram futurum esse ut interficeremini. /
Noveram fore ut interficeremini. Literally: I knew that it would be
(or "would happen") that you all were killed.


EXAMPLES:
I hope that he will not be killed. (or "that it will be that he not be killed")
Spero fore (or "futurum esse") ut non interficiatur.
They thought that you (pl.) would be conquered. (or "that it would be that you be conquered")
Putabant fore (or "futurum esse") ut vinceremini.

Suboblique Subjunctive

Section 226 is wrong in saying that subordinate/dependent clauses in indirect speech MUST have a subjunctive verb, but it is VERY COMMON, and is virtually necessary when the subordinate clause expresses an idea held by someone in the indirect statement but not necessarily by the speaker or author. In short, if the dependent clause in a indirect statement is not a known fact or a personal opinion of the main subject, then it should always be subjunctive. Even if it is a known fact or personal opinion of the main subject, it may be attracted into the subjunctive. Thus to be safe, you may always use the subjunctive for subordinate clauses in indirect discourse.

Examples:
I knew that you were coming because you wanted to see me.
Noveram/Scivi te venire quod me videre velles.
Since the reasoning in the causal quod clause is clearly in the mind of the "you" (te) subject of the indirect statement, we use the subjunctive form velles.
I know that you lost (or "were defeated") because [as I know] you are weak.
Scio/novi te victum esse quoniam invalidus es/sis.
Here the causal quoniam clause is clearly in the mind of the main subject. Thus one might keep an indicative or change it to subjunctive by attraction within indirect discourse.
I heard that earlier* he ran away when he saw the enemy.
*In Latin we can leave out "earlier" and simply put the infinitive into perfect tense to show earlier time.
Audivi eum fugisse ubi/cum hostes vidisset.
Here the temporal ubi/cum clause represents something reported to the speaker by a third party. Since it is not a fact the speaker can directly vouch for nor a statement of opinion from the speaker himself (i.e. the main clause subject), it should have a subjunctive verb.
You will keep asking what I did until you find out.
Rogabis iterum iterumque quid fecerim dum invenias.
The until (dum) clause is a purpose in the mind of both speaker and person being spoken to so it must use subjunctive (it would even be subjunctive if not in an indirect question).