Ch. 58-9

HW 58-9

HW: Add one more English sentence to the passage in quotations below, and then translate the whole passage into oratio obliqua (indirect discourse) after "Dicebat" ("he was saying" where he is the speaker of the original quote).

"How wise he is! If he were king, we would all be happier. Don't you think so? Speak now, tell me. If you do not, then I will fight you since you dishonor (i.e. injure) his reputation. Because you still do not answer, I have decided that you must be killed...(add your own final sentence here)"

Start with "Dicebat" and then translate the above passage and your sentence into Latin indirect discourse following the rules outlined below and in chapters 58 and 59 of your textbook.


ORATIO OBLIQUA

This fancy term means the same as indirect discourse. It is used to refer to how sentences are changed in Latin when they go into indirect speech, question, or command---typically when the main clause is a past tense (or historical present) and the main subject is usually 3rd person. Note that oratio obliqua is most common in long narrative passages of prose such as reported historical descriptions. Sometimes such passages do not even have a main verb, the whole passage is understood to be in indirect discourse.

Notes on changes in oratio obliqua (cf. sect. 582)

1. Pronoun changes

a. 1st person pronouns ego (me) & nos change to sui, sibi, se, se, and meus & noster to suus.
b. 2nd person pronouns become 3rd person, often a form of ille (Vocatives may also change to 3rd person.)
c. 3rd person pronouns may be is or hic to avoid confusion.

Examples:
Original: "I saw you there with him."
Indirect/Reported/Oratio Obliqua: He said that he had seen that man with this one.
Latin: Dixit se(=I) illum(=you) cum eo(=him) vidisse.
Original: "We will come to see you after we meet her."
Indirect/Reported/Oratio Obliqua: He said that he and his companions would come to see that man after they met this woman.
Latin: Dixit se et comites suos illum (virum) visum venturos esse postquam huic feminae occurrissent.

2. Tense Changes

If the original statement had primary (present/future) tenses, they must show correct relative time with past main verb and thus subjunctives become either imperfect (for original present), pluperfect (for any original past tense), or imperfect plus the future active particple (for orginal future). Latin infinitives in indirect statement show ONLY relative time and thus do NOT change tenses depending on the main verb.

Examples:
"They are coming and will kill you because you are hurting him.
He said that they were coming and would kill that man because he was hurting this one.
Dixit eos venire(pres. = same time) et illum interfecturos esse(fut. = later time) quod ei noceret (impf. subj. = same time in secondary sequence).

3. Changes in demonstratives and adverbs

In Oratio Obliqua, this, here, and now type words change to that, there, and then type words.

Examples:
"This is the best man here."
Everyone thought that that/he was the best man there.
Omnes putabant eum/illum esse illic/ibi optimum.

"Now is the time."
He said that then/that was the time.
Dixit tum/illud esse tempus.

NOTE THE CHARTS FOR TENSES AND FOR ADVERB/DEMONSTRATIVE CHANGES IN 582

INDIRECT STATEMENT REVIEW AND NOTES

Indirect questions and commands uses normal nominative subjects and subjunctive verbs following sequence of tenses; indirect statement uses an accusative subject (which must be stated even when the same as the subject of the main verb) and infinitive verbs.

Here is another chart for infinitives in indirect statement:

Original verb tense } infinitive tense
present (e.g. facio) } present (e.g. facere)
any past (e.g. mutatus erat) } perfect (e.g. mutatum esse)
future (aget) } future (acturum esse)

Examples:
"I myself am great."
He said that he himself was great.
Dixit se ipsum esse magnum.

COMMANDS IN ORATIO OBLIQUA

Use imperfect jussive subjunctive in place of imperative. Note the subject changes as above indicated from 2nd to 3rd person.

Examples:
"Come quickly."
(He said) let them come quickly. ...that they should come quickly.
(Dixit) venirent celeriter.

QUESTIONS IN ORATIO OBLIQUA

If rhetorical (most questions that are not in 2nd person), questions use accusative and infinitive as they are really statements. If a real question expecting an answer, use indirect question with subjunctive verb. For your purposes, you may simply use indirect question for original 2nd person, and acc. + inf. for 1st and 3rd person questions.

Examples:
"Why are you waiting? The time is here is it not?"
He shouted why were they waiting, was it not the time.
Clamavit quare illi expectarent, nonne illud/id tempus esse.

"What are you (all) saying? This cannot be true, can it?"
(He asked) what were they saying, that could not be true, could it.
(Rogavit) quid illi dicerent, num id/illud verum esse.

EXCLAMATIONS

Exclamations in oratio obliqua follow the acc. and inf. construction like statements.

Examples:
"How large it is!"
"What a day this has been!"
(They exclaimed) how large it was. / what (kind of) a day it/that had been.
(Clamaverunt) quantum esse. / qualem diem fuisse.

SUI, SIBI, SE, SE, AND SUUS

These reflexives may refer either to the indirect statement's subject or the main clause subject if there is no ambiguity. Otherwise ipse may be used to provide emphasis for a internal reflexive in indirect statement.

59 SUBOBLIQUE CLAUSES

This chapter deals with specific changes to subordinate clauses in indirect discourse (oratio obliqua).

Generally they take a subjunctive verb following sequence of tenses even if they originally had an indicative verb.

592 IF AND WHEN

Below is a chart for changes to verbs in if (si) and when (cum/quando/ubi) clauses, note this applies ONLY TO THE VERB OF THE SUBORDINATE CLAUSE. The main clause becomes acc. and inf. indirect statement.

Original indicative } new subjunctive
future (cupies) } imperfect (cupires)
future perfect (egero) } pluperfect (egissem)

593 & 594 WHEN TO USE SUBOBLIQUE SUBJUNCTIVES

Use them inside of indirect discourse and even when there is no indirect discourse but the clause indicates the thought of the main clause subject.

Example:
He left because he wanted to go home.
Discessit quod vellet domum ire.

595 ALLEGED CLAUSES

If the writer/speaker wants to disavow responsibility for whether a statement is factual. That is the author doubts the truth to some extent.

They went to the town where (they thought) he was.
Ierunt ad oppidum ubi adesset.

596 SUBJUNCTIVE CONDITIONS IN SUBOBLIQUE

The if clauses usually remain the same as originally. The main or then clauses turn into indirect statements with acc. and inf.

Chart on changes to main clause verbs in subjunctive conditions

Original subjunctive } new infinitive
present (sit) } future (futurum esse)
imperfect (faceret) } future participle + fuisse (facturum fuisse)
pluperfect (habuissent) } future participle + fuisse (habituros fuisse)

For passive future infinitives use fore (or "futurum esse") + ut (subj.). For passive of the facturum fuisse type construction use futurum fuisse ut (subj.).

Examples:
I said that that would be done. ...it was going to be that that be done.
Dixi futurum esse ut illud fieret.
They believed that he would have been killed. ...it had been going to be that he be killed.
Crediderunt futurum fuisse ut interficeretur.